The question everyone asked me before I left my job. And by everyone, I mean EVERYONE. Family, friends, coworkers, fellow bloggers, and readers.
“What are you going to do about healthcare?!”
I did some research into the options and it turns out Liberty Healthshare was the best option for me.
I had 4 options: keep my Cadillac health insurance plan from my former employer on COBRA, get a plan on the Exchange, go with Liberty, or self-insure. Self insurance was out. I don’t have $10 million, so I can’t afford to self-insure. COBRA was tempting — after all, I’d been on that plan for 5 years and knew what it covered. It was also an incredibly robust insurance plan that covered a lot of expenses, a definite rarity these days. However, it was going to cost me $450 a month plus medical copays and whatnot, so I said no thanks.
That left a plan on the Exchange or Liberty. I looked into going with a plan on the Exchange. Leaving my job was a qualifying event so I had something like 90 days to sign up with the Exchange before I had to wait until Open Enrollment in December. Turns out it’s a good thing I had so long as the first 45 days post-job were pretty crazy. I did my due diligence and looked at the various plans. I had budgeted $250 a month for health insurance and saw plenty of plans under that. Unfortunately, none of them had very good coverage options or were incredibly limited on who you could see or where you could go for care.
That left Liberty Healthshare.
What is Liberty Healthshare?
Liberty Healthshare is not an insurance plan. Liberty HealthShare is a healthcare sharing ministry whose members share medical expenses. Did I mention it’s not health insurance as defined by the ACA? Its members pay for medical expenses by sharing the costs. Members pay a monthly “sharing” contribution which, pooled together, pays for the medical expenses of other members. Before you’re eligible to have your expenses shared you have to meet an annual unshared amount, similar to a deductible.
Since it’s not an Exchange plan, I won’t get a form for my taxes this year that says I have health insurance. However, it’s considered exempt for the purposes of the mandate, so I won’t have to pay the penalty on my 2018 taxes. In 2019, there’s no mandate so it’ll be interesting to see how things change there.
Liberty Healthshare Cost
I went with Liberty for two main reasons. The first reason is supposed ease of use. You get care, you had the office your member card, and the bill gets sent off to Liberty to review. No fussing with insurance and making countless calls to get care codes fixed. I am trying to make my life easier, so this seems to be a good start to reducing unnecessary complications.
The second reason I went with Liberty is the cost. Compared to the Exchange where decent plans started at $250 and went up from there, Liberty is a steal at only $125 a month.
That’s right, $125 a month.
Pretty great, eh? And unlike the time I went with the lowest price option on fixing my house, I am confident I made a good choice.
I have a few friends who went with Liberty so I called them up and asked them what they thought. None of them had anything bad to say about the care, and actually raved about it. When’s the last time you can remember someone raving about the quality of their health insurance? Probably never ha!
Since I am a single healthy female under the age of 30, I qualified for one of the lowest price tiers. Since they aren’t governed by the ACA, Liberty does a bit more screening up front with potential members. They asked me if I drank, smoked, did illegal drugs like marijuana and other illicit substances, and a few other lifestyle questions. Fortunately, the only drug I’m addicted to is sugar and that’s not illegal (although maybe that wouldn’t be a bad thing). They also ask you about pre-existing conditions. Can’t say that I blame them for asking. They have to evaluate the impact to their bottom line and make sure they can cover everyone’s costs.
They also ask you about your religious habits as they are a Christian based ministry. I didn’t find any evidence they kicked people out for not being Christian, but I played it safe anyways. I’m a religious attendant of the Church of St Mattress when I’m not at Mass with my boyfriend’s family. (And no, I didn’t put that on the form. Yeesh.)
Liberty Healthshare Quality
I have had Liberty for a little over a month now. Thankfully, I’ve yet to need to see a doctor so I can’t comment on the quality of care or ease of paying for said care. However, I will be sure to update this post after that happens (which will hopefully take a while).
I can say, though, I have heard nothing but good things, even from my friend that had a baby while with Liberty. I think it will be great. I don’t just have this hunch — no no. When I was filling out the application form (which is like, 8 pages so be ready) Liberty CALLED MY PHONE and asked if I needed any help.
They have someone monitoring the forms and can tell when someone is in the process of filling it out. So they called me and wanted to make sure everything was going ok. How is that for customer service?? I was incredibly impressed. No one called me when I was struggling to fill out the application for the Exchange, that’s for sure.
Liberty Healthshare Review
So far, so good! Everything was easy to understand, the process to sign up was a breeze, and the customer service excellent. I sleep better at night knowing I’m covered if something happens and I have to go see a doctor. Considering I like to do things like hike through the woods and play softball, this makes me feel a lot better. (Especially since I got hurt for the first time ever in adult softball last month with a very mild concussion).
No fear, Mom. Liberty Healthshare has my back 🙂
Update: February 2019
I was a Liberty Healthshare member from June 2018 to December 2018.
In that time, I did not use their services once, as I was pretty healthy. I did have one small issue that required some meds, but I went to the local clinic down the road as I felt that would be easier and lower cost. I also felt there was a strong chance Liberty wouldn’t cover the service as it was something that fell into a gray area based on their literature.
A ton of people have left comments below both for and against Liberty. I recommend reading them all and making the best decision for you and your situation.
Signing up was super easy, but cancelling coverage was a bit more difficult. I called them to cancel and got a super nice human being. I gave him all my information and told him I wanted to cancel as I was now covered under my employer’s health insurance plan. He couldn’t cancel over the phone, but gave me an email to send my information to. I did, and expected to get notice my plan was cancelled. However, I didn’t hear anything back and got charged for another month of coverage a week later.
Things have been a bit crazy, so I haven’t called them back yet to complain, but I’ll come back and update the post when I have a resolution.
Final Update
All in all, I would not recommend Liberty Healthshare or another healthsharing ministry. With the benefit of hindsight, it was easy to see Liberty had streamlined their ability to onboard new members, but did not have the amount of staff needed to process claims or unenroll people. I believe it took an extra 2–3 months for me to be able to cancel my membership. I was a lucky one — the comments below are filled with people waiting for sometimes thousands of dollars in reimbursements.
Thanks for reading! Do you have any experience with Liberty? Do you like it? If you’re still working, what are you going to do for health care when you quit?
Good to know! I’d be curious to get a follow up when you do have to use it down the line :-).
I’m probably in a use case where ACA may be better for me than Liberty due to pre-existing conditions, but if I have to look down the line, never hurts to call and find out.
I’m keeping a log of all of the bloggers and what they’re doing about health insurance post-FIRE. Liberty seems to be a popular choice (Hi, Steve @ ThinkSaveRetire).
We went with COBRA for 18 months, but will need to decide something after that. Keep us posted on how Liberty works out, very interested!!
We were actually just having this conversation over the weekend. I do not know enough about healthcare ministries, so I am definitely interested in hearing your experience as it pans out. We’ll prolly just flee the country and use travel healthcare when the time comes ;o)
I know lots of bloggers are gravitating towards health share ministries as they seem to be an economical choice which is key for FI. But that may not be an option for someone who is LGBTQ. I’m not willing to go back into the closet for health insurance since its so important to be open with our providers of care. From doing a quick google search, I’m seeing that Liberty will cover me as an individual but not my spouse in a family plan even though we are legally married in the US and Canada. She would have to get her own plan. And there might also be issues regarding any kind of “relations” out side of “biblical” marriage. One more challenge to LGBTQ-FI.
I agree, Alison. I don’t like religious exemptions that allow companies to act outside of the laws that apply to everyone else. And I would be especially wary of any health insurance that wasn’t secular. In fact, if I was in need of health insurance, I would probably go with an ACA plan rather than Liberty even if it cost more, just out of principle. Everyone should be treated equally.
This country also allows for freedom of religion you know. The great thing about capitalism is, if you don’t like it, you can go to another provider. However, this company’s prices are still far cheaper than a family plan with an ACA.
Sure, if you’re looking for exorbitant costs associated with transgender medication to be covered — this is likely not the plan for you. However, I don’t think asking a company rooted in religiosity to act outside of their religious principles (even though there is no evidence they wouldn’t) is exactly fair. Discrimination is one thing. Freedom of religion is another.
This has already been set as a precedent in the Supreme Court. If it makes you feel any better, the company that won still get’s death threats and routinely harassed (I know that doesn’t actually make you feel better, I am using it as an expression because of how harsh both ends of the spectrum can be).
In regards to employment, that is a bit of a different story. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 generally prohibits any sort of employment discrimination based on sex, race, national origin, or religion. However, there is a notable exception to the rule: religious organizations are allowed to discriminate on the basis of their religion.
Using religion as an excuse to discriminate against someone is wrong, period! Let’s stop using this as an excuse to be bigoted. Otherwise, we can have folks creating religions on the spot and claiming it’s their religion that allows them to, say, not service obese people. This is all ridiculous.
Like the church of the flying spaghetti monster or Satanism?
There is freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion. It is my right to be an atheist, as it is my right to not be discriminated against for being LGBTQ, female, not white or over 65 yo. I do find it sad that we use religion as a “safe harbor” to exclude folks as well as capitalism to say that its OK to not bake me a cake for my wedding because I can just go next door. In these contexts both religion and capitalism further divide us by legitimizing excluding “others”. Additionally, there are healthcare costs out there that are far more expensive than treating conditions that are innate. Say like smoking, eating an unhealthy diet or not exursizing. Personally, I think healthcare should cover the reality of life. If a health insurance company can’t find a way to make money for their share holders by covering “life” then they need to get out of the business. After all, that’s how business and capitalism works, right?
Good idea, Norm. You should go with an ACA plan.
It should be noted that if you follow the rules found in one of the oldest and most historically accurate books in the world, you avoid all kinds of diseases and your life expectancy increases tremendously. The cost of the “insurance” from healthshares reflects that savings. I think it’s great way to save on insurance costs.
I also think it’s impressive that thousands of years before they had any idea what caused STD’s there was a book that told you how to avoid them. Most of the civilizations allowed anything in terms of sex. Why shouldn’t they? Sex feels good and without some understanding on how STD’s are transmitted, why wouldn’t you do whatever feels good? But it’s costly in terms of health.
I love saving because I choose to follow that ancient book.
BTW, I submitted several claims to Liberty on Jan 28th. I received checks sometime between Feb23 and Mar 2 (I was out of town that week.) I was pleasantly surprised.
Ha
If that were true the cost for all Medical Services would be published by providers.
I like the fact that only people that live by Christian principles can use Health share Ministries.
Can you elaborate on your comment “I like the fact that only people that live by Christian principles can use Health share Ministries”? Thanks.
Great article Gwen. I am not in need of Liberty at this time, but it is comforting to hear numerous people with positive reviews for a future date when this may be an option.
Please keep us posted!
Okay, okay, let me RAVE about my health insurance since you haven’t had any examples. My current health insurance (covered by my husband’s employer) is absolutely amazing! (Seriously, zero sarcasm.) He recently got an MRI bill for $27, it was covered before he hit his $125 annual deductible.
The insurance is free for him and ~$300/year for me.
So, now you have at least one example, there are good health insurance plans out there.
Personally, I don’t think I’d ever go with a health share for ethical reasons, but I get why they are so popular in the FIRE community. We’ll of course see what I decide to do when I get faced with that decision in a few years.
Mrs. Groovy and I went with a Silver Plan from the Exchange. Because we are income poor ($30K a year for a household of two), we pay $117 a month. The taxpayers pick up the rest (around $2,400 a month). Is it good insurance? I have no idea. Our family deductible is $1,200. And we haven’t even come close to spending that. Neither of us take medications and everything else is working fine. So we’ll stick with Obamacare until it’s discontinued. After that it’s Medicare. And if that blows up, we’ll follow the WoWs and head overseas (yeah, medical tourism!). Best of luck with Liberty, Gwen. Mrs. Groovy and I have heard pretty good things about it too.
Here is another not so great ACA perspective however. It’s definitely not all peachy for everyone. I am a 47 year old woman, two kids and a same age husband. We had the lovely Silver plan and paid a whopping $1700 a month for it with a $2500 per person deductible. I thought that was sort of okay at the time. We applied for the taxpayer! subsidy but ended up paying it back every year. We make about $100,000 combined. The following year… our $1700 Silver plan increased to $3500! 100% markup in a year.
I went on exchange to look for less expensive plan and the lowest available was $2200 for a $9,000 deductible per person. I recently ditched it for something called Reserve National – a subsidiary of Kaiser out of OK. It is still so new, I just have no idea – but it is not major med, it is supplemental plans.
I looked heavily into Liberty but was hesitant for the unknown of coverage. Now that I made the (insecure feeling) break from BCBS (the only ACA option in Wy) I could probably also go with Liberty. At the time of my research, last winter, it seemed to me that there were a lot of folks not happy with Liberty pay out time frame and admin help (via the BBB website), but I was willing to overlook that since I think reading between the lines… it was a company that grew exponentially fast and sounded like it had trouble keeping up. Maybe that has been rectified some.
I just wanted to share an alternate perspective on the ACA healthcare and that it is great when a subsidy is involved, but not so great if you fall $5-$8,000 outside the cutoff and are still very middle income family who works very hard.
I’m a physician, and this is a very, very dangerous program. Their coverage is limited, and they deny many claims, and when they do, you have very little recourse as they are covered by very few laws. They also deny coverage for many things a standard insurance plan would pay for. Their billing is atrocious, and due to their religious affiliations they will not pay for many things that are standard medical care.
I would suggest either getting an ACA plan or getting COBRA, or frankly no coverage at all rather than wasting $125 a month on a program that is free to deny pretty much any claim.
Our only other option besides liberty was to pay 2300 a month which was not feasible.our monthly payment is $400.00 Our first year with Liberty they assigned a health track dietician for my husband since he was overweight. In one year he has lost 85 pounds and is now off the health track plan and off all meds. Liberty paid for 2 surgeries after we met our $1000 deductible and they pay for our yearly well visit and blood work. It is definitely a little more work and I understand anyone’s reservations as we have had regular health being self employed insurance for 30 years. Obamacare ruined that. So far it has been a life saver for us
For a doctor you give really bad advice. It sounds emotional, like either you bought in and they denied you. I doubt this, I know a few physicians who choose very low paying jobs to serve the poor, but few Drs would be forced here. I think it more likely you have had some patient claina be inadequate for you. I was an RN for 25 years. Maybe that is every public opinion poll released show us way above you in truthfulness and reliabilty. This is way better than no insurance and $125 is nothing compared to the exchange with such huge deductibles and copay, many will never get anything and pay 5 or more times as much. For every story i see not payed a see at least one where they did.
Here is what the healthcare economists have to say: https://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/2016/07/19/healthcare-sharing-ministries-a-leap-of-faith/
Just an FYI- 125k an “incident” is very skimpy coverage. One bad trauma and you would go through that in five days. They also reserve the right to randomly deny coverage for pretty much anything- it’s totally at their discretion.
Why would anyone pay for this?
I suppose I can ask you tomorrow, but curious if the Church of St Mattress is accepting new members, and is tithing expected?
Yes to the first, and for the second, we just ask for at least 6 hours of devotional time a day.
Why I think health shares are more problematic than the FI community is making them out to be:
1. These are not considered insurance companies. This means you have few legal protections if a claim is not paid/denied/it goes bankrupt.
2. Depending on which on you’re working with, there are caps to the number of dollars that would flow your way for care. While there are a certain degree of things we can control (eating habits, exercise) – there are things we cannot such as cancer.
3. All of the questions around statements of faith and regular church attendance is exclusionary in nature – if you’re a person that feels like health care should be made more accessible, not less – i think it’s problematic from an ethical perspective.
4. I think it’s weird to see recommendations for health shares from the FI Community when I have not heard of anyone really using one for a sudden chronic illness / something potentially terminal.
I bring these points up not to be abrasive but out of genuine concern. Insurance is meant to protect you against the unexpected – and I’ve had too many friends and family discover a cancerous tumor in their 30s or a chronic ailment to think that this is a secure and viable alternative to health insurance.
Out of all the things to save on – my health is probably the last thing. I want quality care and predictability – and these health shares concern me.
All excellent points. Thanks for commenting!
Appreciate and enjoy the fact that you’re sharing your experiences — so thank you and keep it up!
Andrew is spot-on. I should add that there is no financial oversight on health sharing ministries and no requirement for them to have any level of financial reserves nor to remain solvent, unlike insurance companies. Some are essentially run as a Ponzi scheme. It’s shocking to me that the government allows them, but there was a lot of pressure for them to do so.
Will they pay for a few stitches, childbirth, and a few doctor visits? Sure. But those are (even birth) relatively low-cost medical events. They probably aren’t going to pay for a six month NICU stay or cancer treatment or a serious trauma. We get insurance not for the routine things, but for the awful, terribly expensive unexpected tragedies that life doles out. This will not cover them.
By “insuring” with a health care ministry, you are essentially shifting any financial burden for serious medical issues first to yourself and then ultimately to the taxpayer who will ultimately may (or may not) pick up the tab for you. I’m not arguing against government funding for healthcare, but wondering why anyone would spend $125 a month on a Ponzi scheme instead of just saving the money and admitting they are OK with the risk/government help?
Don’t drink the FIRE Kool-aid on maintaining your own health; bad things can and will happen to anyone. If you don’t have a spouse with good insurance or the option to return to Canada as some in the community do, you really need to think about the risk you are taking and the possible ramifications.
I’m not trying to be abrasive, either, but as someone with a lot of knowledge of these issues, save your money and go bare, or buy real insurance. This is has many elements of a scam and a Ponzi scheme and I hate to see someone sucked in.
Here is what Consumer Reports says: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/07/should-we-sign-up-for-a-health-care-sharing-ministry/index.htm
Like so many before me, I too was skeptical about diving into a healthshare plan. I figured it would at least fill in as a stop-gap measure in case anything went south while I was shopping “affordable” ACA plans. ACA “affordable”? Compared to what? I fall between the cracks — I make too much for a subsidy, but certainly not enough to afford a Cadillac plan. For me, the best quote I could get for my spouse and myself was MORE than my house payment — that’s not including the deductible of $6,800 — which would have to be met before insurance would kick in their 70% — leaving me on the hook for the remaining 30%. Affordable to whom?
I see where the “Affordable Care Act” works for some, but for those of us who have busted our butts to become our own bosses, or who are small business owners with groups too small to get under a larger umbrella, it is simply adding insult to injury.
That being said, THANK GOD FOR LIBERTY!!! At least that is a box I could fit in: a healthy individual without a history… an anomaly? Perhaps, but for now, I’ll take it! Here’s why: A month ago I actually had an emergency which landed me in the hospital for the first time in my life (with the exception of having my kids). I was in for 3 days and 2 nights. I never received a bill. It went directly to Liberty. The original price was over $25,000. It was discounted 20% (through their Medical Costs Solutions negotiators) and submitted for sharing. It’s been completely covered! I’m blown away, I’m humbled and so grateful. My initial unshared amount (same as a deductible) was $500, which was already covered over the course of the year. Had I been on the “affordable” plan (which I had to ditch because of the terrible ROI), my out of pocket would have been around $14,300 — mind you, this would have been after paying the “affordable” premiums of around $1200 per month… My Liberty plan for my spouse and myself is around $350, so it’s kind of a no-brainer!
So, in this instance, it worked! And, BTW, I am NOT a paid Liberty rep. I’m just a person who is always researching better ways for people to live the quality lives they deserve. 🙂
Liberty may not be for everyone, but if one is interested, check them out. They DO have to comply with various governing bodies regarding financial disclosure. Liberty itself provides FULL financial transparency; roughly .12 cents on the dollar goes to administrative, leaving the remaining .88 cents to go for the intended purpose of helping to cover shared health costs.
There’s really nothing to lose. You can keep your “affordable” plan AND supplement with Liberty as well. A savvy consumer can easily navigate between the two and chose which card to play depending on the crisis… Something to think about!
I went to the hospital for what I thought was a heart attack and deep vein thrombosis. They did some x‑rays, mri and had me out of the hospital in 3 hours. The result, the hospital charges 7000 dollars with liberty paying a whopping 25 bucks. Analther time I went to urgent care for an eye infection and they did not cover nothing. This medical plan is a scam. Don’t use them. Get out when you can. Money can be used elsewhere.
Everybody has different experiences. Had you met your deductible before going to the hospital? It’s possible they paid what they were supposed to based on being in the first year and their plans.
We switched to Liberty in 2018 as both my wife and I are self-employed. It was a risk and I think we’ve seen some good and some bad. We’ve chronicled the entire experience at http://www.mylibertyexperience.com. We are looking at short-term health plan options for 2019 (specifically from United Healthcare). Hope what we’ve documented is helpful to those of you working through the same decisions we did — we wanted to provide as much detail as possible. Happy Annual Enrollment season!
Dan recently posted…Our Current View on Liberty as we Head into Annual Enrollment
Yikes. That health care is now a luxury item is ridiculous. I am a 47 year old widow raising two kids (12 and 14). I am a lawyer. I am not rich. My Kaiser silver plan monthly premiums are $1017 per month with $3500 per person deductible and $15,000 mad out of pocket. When my daughter broke her ankle, after hours, I chose to pay CASH to an out of network provider and NOT use Kaiser despite paying > $12,000 per year in premiums. Reason: I would have had to drive 40 miles to the one Kaiser Urgent Care, paid a $75 co-pay, then pay for all x‑rays, brace, etc. out of pocket because I hadn’t met her deductible. I have no ability to get any tax credit. In short, I am screwed and paying huge sums for no service. I have no choice but to at least consider Liberty or something similar. This county needs to get its head out of its a** and start dealing with this health care crisis…
Sorry for the vent. But it’s all true.
Vent away – I can completely relate. You just described our situation and frustration. We have the bronze level with kaiser and our premiums (husband and myself) are going from $900 up to $1200, which gets us next to nothing. I priced other insurance options and $1200 is still the cheapest. For those in our situation, there seems to be no better alternative than health ministries. Makes me nervous to try, but we just can’t shell our $1200 a month.
The other option we are considering this year is a short term health insurance plan from United Healthcare. We are in Ohio and you can now hold these plans for 360 days. They aren’t for everyone but if you are open minded enough to try Liberty you should read up on these plans. Yes, pre-existing conditions are not covered, nor is maternity which I acknowledge rules out a lot of people, but we’ve done a lot of research and are considering the plans. I broke down our analysis at http://www.mylibertyexperience.com because we are considering leaving Liberty now that we have the short term health insurance plan option. Again, know it’s not for everyone but I do think it’s worth really researching and understanding.
Dan recently posted…Our ACA Compliant Options for 2019 (and the benefits of an HSA illustrated!)
Aliera Healthcare. Give them a call
I hope you stay healthy and have nothing happen. Our son went from perfectly healthy one day, to be admitted to a Children’s Hospital for a serious health need. Guess who wasn’t helpful? Liberty Healthshare. It has been a stressful nightmare. This happened in August, and our bills to this day sit in N/A status. It is a joke. They are happy to collect your share money every month, but don’t expect much if a health crisis happens.
Here is another not so great ACA perspective however. It’s definitely not all peachy for everyone. I am a 47 year old woman, two kids and a same age husband. We had the lovely Silver plan and paid a whopping $1700 a month for it with a $2500 per person deductible. I thought that was sort of okay at the time. We applied for the taxpayer! subsidy but ended up paying it back every year. We make about $100,000 combined. The following year… our $1700 Silver plan increased to $3500! 100% markup in a year.
I went on exchange to look for less expensive plan and the lowest available was $2200 for a $9,000 deductible per person. I recently ditched it for something called Reserve National — a subsidiary of Kaiser out of OK. It is still so new, I just have no idea — but it is not major med, it is supplemental plans.
I looked heavily into Liberty but was hesitant for the unknown of coverage. Now that I made the (insecure feeling) break from BCBS (the only ACA option in Wy) I could probably also go with Liberty. At the time of my research, last winter, it seemed to me that there were a lot of folks not happy with Liberty pay out time frame and admin help (via the BBB website), but I was willing to overlook that since I think reading between the lines… it was a company that grew exponentially fast and sounded like it had trouble keeping up. Maybe that has been rectified some.
I just wanted to share an alternate perspective on the ACA healthcare and that it is great when a subsidy is involved, but not so great if you fall $5-$8,000 outside the cutoff and are still very middle income family who works very hard.
Hi fiery millennial’s, I just came across this thread and wanted to share with you that we started an organization similar to liberty health but based more on holistic health: education and prevention. https://knewhealth.com
I’ve been on Liberty for 2 years, me/wife. They have negotiated lower bills for simple Dr visits but they have yet to settle our 12mo old, $3k er bill with the hospital. We pay $429/mo total, one of us is slightly heavy so there is an $80/mo penalty for that. Of course it is cheaper than the $14,000/yr ACA plan (the cheapest, yes that’s more than our mortgage!!) If something more serious happens to either of us, I’m not confident Liberty will pay. Of course the hospital is also complicit in this, since they want to grossly overcharge for the services they rendered, they have to preserve their multi-billion $$ yearly profits. Posting anonymously since I don’t want retaliation by Liberty or others.
I’m a social worker in New Mexico and recently met a family who has this insurance. I had never heard of it before. I went to their website, and clicked on a link for “testimonials”. That took me to a “404 page not found”. After checking, both the patient and I were shocked to find out that they have absolutely no mental health benfits. Not for counseling, psychiatry, or any kind of mental health treatment. I thought that was illegal, but I guess they found a loophole.
Keep in mind it’s also not health insurance so they’re not held to the same standards.
So I would like to share my experience from Liberty that is not so good. I had a minor procedure done 16 months ago- the first and only claim I’ve had. Initially, they said they’d pay it, and i was surprised with how easy it was. I work as a nurse on the resource team at a hospital and we don’t get insurance even though we are full time employees due to them classifying us as PRN employees. So I was advocating Liberty to all my fellow resource team people and all that. Well fastforward to now, I’m still getting calls and letters about this unpaid bill. If I pay anything, Liberty won’t pay anything, because they are in “negotiations.” Their negotiations basically consist of Liberty sending the hospital a check for $206 on a $1400 bill with “by cashing this, you are saying this bill is paid in full.” (<- or something to that effect), so the hospital doesn’t cash it, because obviously they’d like to recoup a little more than 15% of the cost that they are billing. I have called approximately 7 times, and every time it “should be taken care of in a week!” The Liberty people are always nice, but when they transfer me to the bill negotiater people, they are sometimes nice and sometimes irritable and rude (as was my experience today). I will say that I was grouchier about the whole thing, because we are 16 months in, and they are still sending the hospital these little checks in hopes that they will cash them and then they can consider the bill paid in full at $200. Side note: the amount of money they pay to the agency negotiating these bills and the hospitals pays for the people trying to get the bill paid probably far exceeds the cost of the actual medical procedure. In the 16 months since, I have paid in $4,000 in monthly premiums. Keep in mind too that Liberty only accepts people that are healthy with no preexisting conditions, and pays for no preventative care and has no prescription coverage. After talking to the lady today, I think it dragging on for years is not unusual at all, and it sounds like this isn’t close to coming to resolution. Meanwhile, I’m just not answering my phone when the hospital calls and hoping my doctor doesn’t personally know that my bill is still unpaid.
It’s awful.
I can’t say I’m surprised by your experience. My wife and I (and 3 boys) spent the last year with Liberty and were not impressed even with just the basic wellness visits we had to work with Liberty on. We switched to a short-term health insurance plan this year. We chronicled things at http://www.mylibertyexperience.com so people could see the practical detail behind our experience. I tend to see reviews at a fairly high level and I wanted to make sure, as long as we were going to take on the experiment, we document everything. Needless to say it was a fairly significant administrative burden. All the best in getting your situation resolved!
Dan recently posted…Our Choice for 2019
Liberty has been an absolute nightmare. It has been 11 months of back and forth and now they want not just bills but actual medical records from my doctor for one event. On another bill they said it couldn’t be processed because it did not have the code- which is right on the itemized bill I submitted!! When you call reps are very vague. Conflicting information. Oh and if something isn’t right with your submission, they don’t communicate this to you- your bill sits there until you yourself notice and call. Then you give them what they say they’re missing, then they wait another few months. A confused rep said I hadn’t met the $1000 threshold- from a $2000 bill incurred while it was $500. I have a bad feeling they are going to fold from all the new members and legally they are not required to pay anything. I am absolutely getting aaay from them.
I joined Liberty Healthshare in June 2016 simply because I couldn’t afford any other option, not even employer-provided insurance. (I don’t make a lot and though the monthly amounts were comparable, the deductible for employer-provided insurance was $6K! (on a $22K income)).
So I joined Liberty and promptly went through my third hip dislocation. (Yes, my THIRD!) I’d disclosed all of my health conditions, including my artificial hips. Since they were more than 2 years old and I hadn’t had any treatment for them in over 2 years, they were not considered a pre-existing condition.
In total, I was billed just shy of $200K for the surgery. Fortunately, my ortho surgeon accepted Liberty as did the hospital. (My other doctors don’t, so I must pay up front then wait to be reimbursed.) I was scared to death about the bills, unsure if I’d be stuck with overwhelming medical debt.
Fortunately, it worked out. Liberty negotiated down the bills, then paid them. A couple of providers balance-billed me when Liberty paid only a portion of the total charges, but their MedCost Solutions handled all of it. It took a while on a couple of different bills, but every single bill was paid.
I had a nearly $200K surgery and walked away with absolutely NO medical debt. NONE.
This third hip dislocation and recovery was the sickest I’ve been since birth. It was awful and recovery was long and slow. But I am THRILLED to have been able to keep my same ortho surgeon of 24 years, get the work done and walk away with NO medical debt! That was huge for me.
Health sharing certainly isn’t for everyone. But it’s right for me, at this time in my life. I urge everyone considering it to carefully review the sharing guidelines and go into it with your eyes wide open. In many ways, it works very differently than regular health insurance, so you need to be prepared.
Thank you for sharing your experience. As a relatively new Liberty member, I’ve been feeling some panic as I read all the horrible experiences being shared. As I’ve questioned my decision, I come back around to the same conclusion – health sharing was the only option we could afford. If something isnt done to fix the rising healthcare costs, more and more people, like us, will find themselves forced out of insurance coverage. What other option do we have, but health sharing ministries?
MY WIFE AND I HAD TO GO TO CHIROPRACTORS IN 2018.WE PAID OUT OF POCKET.WE ARE SUPPOSE TO BE REIMBURSED FOR 12 VISITS EACH.STILL WAITING TO BE REIMBURSED FOR MOST OF THE VISITS.NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I CALL AND TALK TO MEMBER SERVICES,EVERYTHING IS FROZEN IN TIME.AND IT SEEMS THEY REPRICED OUR VISITS WHEN THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE SO.WE PAID CASH EACH VISIT AND WAS ALREADY AT THE LOWEST CHARGED AMOUNT.NOT ONLY ARE WE NOT BEING PAID SPEEDILY,WE ARE BEING RIPPED OFF???I GO TO MAILBOX EVERYDAY HOPING TO SEE THE CHECKS,BUT NOTHING.AND NO ONE CAN CONTACT THE PEOPLE IN THE ACCOUNTING DEPARTMENT TO ASK THEM QUESTIONS.THEY ARE SHUT OFF FROM EVERYONE EVEN THE CUSTOMER REPS.AND I CAN’T CONTACT UPPER MANAGEMENT EITHER.EVERYTHING IN LIMBO AND WHY WOULD THE REPRICE OUR PAYMENTS WHEN IT’S ALREADY AT LOWEST CASH PAID????ANYONE OUT THERE THAT CAN HELP US??ANYONE?HELLO??
Thanks for researching and providing us information, I am also looking for health insurance but I wasn’t sure from where should I get it but your article convinced me, after reading it I will also go with liberty insurance.
It is always to great to have a healthcare as you never you that from what kind of disease you can get suffer. You don’t want to suffer from the disease like varicose vein, heart disease due to the money problems.
Adrian Willson recently posted…Three Conditions Vein Doctors Can Treat: Varicose Veins, DVT and Venous Insufficiency Symptoms
worst insurance…
If you do have THEM…any and all contact with them should be recorded on your end and even an email as proof of the down and out Straight up Lied upon lies they will tell you anything ..Please cover yourself anyway you can..
I’ve had creditors after me and I have excellent credit Iv’e had to quickly pay out of pocket to resolve..
Went to the ER for kidney stones 5 hours there 20,000 later over a year ago..
hospital wants the money..
I call to check on the payment..then they tell me I need all these CODES so I go to hospital get the codes resubmit..
months go by no check ..
call cuz at this point the Hospital is threatening me..So I get ahold of liberty we do a 3 way call to hospital to get it extended..They agree and give me 40 days..
so I wait 30 days for process…
call to check on it and Liberty Had NOT even turned it in for payment…Mind you we spend’s a good hour on the phone..
Next Liberty call I get another gal tells me she’s sorry and that they have a new payment program in place and it only takes 3 days to process…SO I wait a week…
Call again …OH Never Turned it in again and tell me that its not true that its 40 to 60 days to get paid…
Mean while I have to come up with this money in the next 2 days or my credit is dinged..
Im beside myself they call them selves Christians FU LIBERTY
For us, liberty started as a great concept in 2018 and by Jan 2019, it has turned into a management nightmare.
Yes — liberty is pay and pray (that it gets reimbursed)
It sounds very enticing on paper, however in the course of a year with about 40 different visits to 7 providers, liberty has messed up with about 15 visits (some with the same provider). Btw — i am still trying to get them to process bills from Oct 2018 and its Mar 2019 !!
Here’s the scenarios:
(Straight forward)
You go the doc. Doc says sure we will submit to liberty or they call liberty and say you have a deductible. You pay the visit amount and you end of story
(Getting Complicated)
All of the above but you have an in-office treatment. You go home and in a few weeks you get a bill. You submit to Liberty. Liberty can go all hay wired at this point. Some bills they processed and paid and some went into neverland. I had to follow up every couple of weeks to get them to process it and finally have the provider paid.
(More Complicated)
You go to the doc or medical center. They dont take Liberty. You pay SOME services there. They balance bill you for the REST later. You send liberty the current bill (you might have to call the provider to get medical notes since liberty MUST see the CPT code). The balance bill comes in, you pay and then you submit the balance bill and then you repeat the call to the provider to get the balance bill CPT codes, then you upload to liberty and call liberty to connect the 2 bills using the same “D” bill code (its their internal billing numbering system).
When all is said and done, i have spent hours on the phone trying to get this done.
(Very Complicated)
Think of all the scenarios where you are trying to get a hold of detailed bills with CPT codes and trying to submit them and connect them at liberty.
One annual physical, the clinic took a $100 deposit because they werent sure if liberty will end up paying for all blood tests. Since this is not a “network”, there’s no guarantees what liberty will and willl not pay, so you are the mercy of the provider.
I am getting out of liberty after 1 year and not renewing due to all the intervention and hours i have to spend getting the billing updated.
I have been with Liberty HealthShare for years now. However, I really never used it. When I did use it; the nightmare began. Try calling them you’ll get a high call volume saying leave message and they will return your call. Never happens. When you finally call them back and wait the wait, they will precede to pass you back and forth among member services and other branches only to be placed on hold for hours until you give up. It has been over 8 months and they have not reimbursed me a dime. Don’t believe me? Try calling and watch the run around. Unless your are trying to sign up; then someone will take your call. Give it a shot. This is a terrible experience I hope to get out of soon.
If I could leave a review on Liberty’s page, I would give them one star for their customer service being able to stay friendly to unhappy customers and get creative with their lies. Where do I even begin?? The easiest place is to agree with the many unhappy reviews you can find on other platforms, including Yelp. We have paid thousands to Liberty in monthly payments — in addition to paying a substantial amount out of pocket for our two children’s medical expenses since last September 2018. We have received $0 as reimbursement. We have been on and off the phone with them (including countless emails) since October. We have received the run-around about how to properly submit bills, lied to about timeframe of submittals for reimbursement, lied to about checks being sent but never were, lied to about when someone would “look into it and get it taken care of” but never did.… I 100% think this place is a scam. Not one person has been consistent with information. I have read several of the same story on other review platforms so we aren’t the only ones who have been lied to and out of a lot of money.
My husband called by phone today to talk to a supervisor (did I mention it takes at least 30 min to an hour to get any kind of person on the other end). This will be the fourth “supervisor” in the past 3 months. Every time, that person is SUPER friendly and promising. They even somehow manage to change the updates in the system to make it look like things are being handled and processed. But please Liberty, explain to me why you tell your members 30–45 business days when it has been OVER 6 MONTHS that we have seen any type of reimbursement. We were told a check was processed and mailed out over a week ago. Today, the first person told him that no checks have been mailed out.
The second lady kept telling him things that didn’t make sense. She was flustered and said, “hang on let me transfer you to Autumn, who is my supervisor..she is sitting right here and told me to go ahead and transfer you.” Once he was transferred over, the call went straight to her voicemail. Her voicemail box was FULL, so the call hung up. He called back and finally reached her, but she said we were on a Prompt Payment list and several people were ahead of us..it’s going to be another few weeks until we receive anything. That means we would’ve paid Liberty more in monthly payments for 8+ months than what we’ve paid out of pocket for FULL medical bills since we’ve been members — and only getting a percentage of that back as reimbursement — IF we ever see it. Thousands of dollars lost just to Liberty HealthShare. We would have been 100% better off by just paying medical expenses fully out of pocket.
I am so sad for all the people who have lost money to these people. If you are in your first few months, PLEASE CANCEL your membership to save you stress and heartache. To call themselves a Christian ministry is outright audacious and fraud. Our children are young. Both have had ongoing medical issues, and we are getting down to the point where we feel we can’t take them to the doctor unless it’s a severe emergency — my husband and I don’t even go to the doctor for our own needs — because we know we can’t afford much more and definitely can’t continue to pay for HealthShare that isn’t reimbursing us as promised. We were told that since our baby is under 1 yo, all of her medical costs would be reimbursed, no question. We are still waiting for thousands of dollars just for her since last September.
I will be sharing our story and this review on as many platforms as I possibly can.
Thanks for sharing this research and great tips. The raving details about Liberty have been soiled by the nasty reviews about their awful customer service and refusal to reimburse, and I have had to reconsider my decision to enroll with them. Seems this is a new attitude they’ve taken up. Which healthshare prog would you recommend as best this year?
Liberty Health Share has been an absolute disaster for me and my family and has ended up costing us more than $10,000 –
Their system is a total mess, and getting reimbursed for anything more than a simple doctor’s visit is nearly impossible, and if you do manage to get reimbursed, it will only be after spending multiple hours on the phone with them several times a week, and doing all of their administrative work for them.
I spent almost 6 months trying to get reimbursed for a large hospital bill that I had to put on my credit card.
I am now in month three of waiting for another bill to be reimbursed at 6,000 and it doesn’t look like they are going to do it.
They are not taking my phone calls any more, and are basically unreachable.
DO NOT USE THIS SERVICE.
Thanks for sharing. This health insurance situation is unbelievable. In a bad way…
My husband and I, along with our four children, have been Liberty members for nearly five years now. We are active, healthy and had no trouble with reimbursement until the last year. Basically, our pediatrician, our GP and the local hospitals/urgent care centers billed Liberty like insurance and we had no issues. The insurance offered through my husband’s small company cost over $3000/month with a $12,000 deductible and required us to select from a small group of in-network doctors (neither our pediatrician nor our GP were on the list.) Liberty seemed like a great alternative. They paid for our kids’ well visits, our annual checkups and the odd sick visit. We handed over our card, our doctors billed Liberty and everything was great.
A few years ago, our oldest child became seriously ill and required major surgery. The hospital billed Liberty, they were paid and we had no issues.
Until last year. First, both our pediatrician and our GP stopped accepting Liberty because they were seriously behind in reimbursing. Our pediatrician’s office showed me the backlog of unpaid bills, some going back more than six months, for routine visits. I called Liberty and was reassured that this was a fluke and was due to the new system being implemented. It seemed plausible, so I didn’t worry.
Then, the local children’s hospital sent us a letter and wrote on their website (in all caps, no less) that they would not longer accept health sharing ministries. The local imaging center where I got my routine mammograms stated they would no longer accept health sharing ministries AND that self-pay patients would no longer be given itemized statements in order to receive third-party reimbursement. Other area imaging centers have followed suit. Slowly, doctors and hospitals and outpatient centers stopped billing Liberty.
Our youngest child went to the ER last summer, which resulted in an overnight inpatient stay. I called Liberty for pre-authorization and they said it would all be covered. This was on a Friday afternoon. On Saturday, when she was still in the hospital and about to be discharged, a billing rep. came in to tell me that they would not accept Liberty (I’d given them the card/all my info in the ER) and that I needed to pay a $5000 deposit before my daughter was discharged as a “good faith” down payment on her hospital stay. Of course, Liberty’s office was closed and I had no recourse. I had to pay. The worst came when we were sent the bill a few weeks later. It was nearly $20,000 for an ER visit and less than 24 hours in inpatient observation. We were considered self-pay, the hospital would not contact Liberty and the billing department would not allow us to negotiate the bill. Despite me having done my homework, looking up all the tests/procedures on the Medical Blue Book Site, and trying to work to bring down the hugely inflated bill, I was told by the billing director that she would give us a “generous” 15% discount, but that we had 7 days to pay it, otherwise, it would revert to the original amount. Panicked, I called Liberty. I was told that they would not be able to process/reprice the bill in that short time and that I should go ahead and pay it. I was reassured that once I’d paid the hospital, I could submit the bill for reimbursement. We paid the “discounted” $16,000. This was in addition to the $5000 I had to pay before leaving the hospital.
That was 11 months ago. I submitted the itemized bill, including diagnosis codes. I kept checking back. I was repeatedly told “it all looks shareable”, but we never saw any reimbursement. Then, I was told I needed to re-submit the bill/codes to another department. Then they lost those and needed them again. Each time they needed more information, it reset the clock – meaning they had another 3 months to “process”. I have to keep calling and emailing to stay on top of this – nobody contacts me about it. Each time I call I hear, “this is still being processed” and/or “this should be shareable”, but there is no time frame for reimbursement.
The fact of the matter is that if you have a doctor or hospital who will bill Liberty on your behalf, it’s great. But when your doctor or hospital insists that you self-pay, YOU are responsible for staying on top of Liberty to get reimbursed…and so far, we have not been reimbursed for these self-pay bills we’ve accrued. You CANNOT negotiate with a hospital when you’re in the ER. Unless you are at a place that will bill Liberty, you are out of luck. While the hospital in our case was WAY out of line with their billing ($300 for a bag of saline, for starters), Liberty has given us a very polite run-around for nearly a year. I do not think they will ever pay this and we have resigned ourselves to the very likely scenario that we will just have to eat this massive expense.
Traditional insurance is certainly not perfect but at least a person has some recourse when it comes to disputes. If you’re with a health sharing ministry and you get slammed with a bill like this, you’re just out of luck. It was great when it worked but now it’s really a crapshoot.
I joined Liberty Health share July 2018. Im very healthy and rarely go to a doctor and only have to cover me. I had one wellness visit in April – that was supposed to be covered without a deductible. It was around $150. I have called 3 or 4 times regarding reimbursement. The last time was about a month ago and they were supposed to reimburse me on their next check run. Its now the first of September and I still havent been reimbursed. I would hate to think how long it would take to get reimbursed if I had a real illness with significant medical bills. I presume, and its only a guess, they dont have the funding available to pay all claims timely. Im going to cancel my membership and acquire real insurance.
WARNING- DO YOUR RESEARCH IF CONSIDERING LIBERTY HEALTHSHARE. Their ratings are very low because they’ve been scamming us members. Don’t let the Christian label fool you.
What an experience! Thanks for sharing this with us.
Please do not recommend this company. The Yelp reviews speak for themselves. I can personally attest as I am 4 months pregnant and having to switch to a traditional insurance mid pregnancy because this company is so horrific. I was a member for 2 years and never made a claim. They are now giving me the run around forcing me to prove that a didn’t pregnant before I was member which it literally impossible. When I did have my dr fax over the information 3 times and finally proved I was pregnant. Crickets. When I called multiple times they assured me that they have a great maternity process but when I call to check the status none of the employees are aware of the “Maternity Advocate” I was supposed to be assigned. They haven’t paid my doctor so I’m forced to pay it up front or be sent to collections. This has been a huge stress while being pregnant. I am grateful to have the money to cover it but this is how people are forced into bankruptcy I can’t believe a “christian” company which treat anyone let alone a pregnant woman this way. I wish I would have known.
Liberty Healthshare is a scam. We paid in for 4 years and, when we went for checkups that they recommended and said were covered 100%, they avoided paying for over a year. We paid out of pocket to ward off the collections agencies calling us and badgered them endlessly until they finally paid MOST of those bills. Don’t be fooled by the “Christian” label. They are con artists.
These people are a scam. I paid in for four years and never needed anything until I had an accident and then they repeatedly misplaced and refiled my bill for 14 months, all the while patiently and politely reassuring me over the phone, until I received a final notice and they informed me that they were not required to work within any time frame and that they were not responsible and that they are not insurance. They seem to think that if they keep repeating the phrase, “we are not insurance” that it relieves them of the agreement we have that after my deductible, they “share” the rest of my bills 100%. Well, nothing was shared. They let the bill go until I was forced to work out a payment plan to save my credit. I don’t think I will ever receive a check from them. Even if I do, it’s not worth the aggravation. Put your money in a fund and save it for a rainy day yourself. Do it when you’re young so you’ll have enough when the time comes. Take a medical vacation overseas or find a vet to do it for you for cash under the table. But, whatever you do, do not step foot in a hospital. That is financial death. Sounds dire, but that’s the situation in this country.
Becoming an LHS member was the worst financial decision I’ve ever made. I have been sent to collections twice and threatened with it several more times because LHS apparently does not have the funding to pay the bills they’ve agreed to pay. Great idea in theory, terrible in practice.
Liberty is a complete SCAM. I am in collections for $3,000 of medical bills. There is no way to hold them accountable. It’s a nightmare. Please edit this post entirely, it will lead innocent people to bankruptcy.
We’ve looked at similar healthshare options before and decided against them.
Jenni is currently on COBRA so we’ll have to make the jump to a new plan at some point in the (relatively) near future.
What did you ultimately decide on for healthcare? We’re probably going to do an ACA plan for her.
Chris@TTL recently posted…Live Below Your Means: Your Path to Financial Freedom
Liberty ended up being a total PITA. We got the runaround on some bills and we were told by a doctor’s office that they wouldn’t deal with them. So we got some balance bills and got sent into collections on one occasion. I never loved the religious aspect either. We’re probably not the only ones who had to fudge it a bit, to be honest. We’re almost FI and just need something to protect the downside.
Anyway, we just switched to another health share with no religious requirements after reading about it in Mr Money Mustache. Not sure if I’m able to post the link but here it is: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2020/11/09/direct-primary-care/
I ended up going back into the W2 world and getting insurance from my employer.
Many people have a very good experience with Knew Health. Not religious-based. Focused on health and wellness.
I just checked out Knew Health, Max and they’re using Sedera — that’s the one MMM joined and we joined too — as their health share back-end. But they’re charging anywhere from $100 to $200 more per month for the same membership. I guess for access to discounts on supplements? Wouldn’t make sense for us to pay so much more for the same thing.
Things have gotten much worse at Liberty Healthshare they are currently paying at over a year and people are in collections…I pay 400 dollars a month and have just cancelled. They have new rule that if I make a claim within 60 days of when I leave the healthshare I am not covered…yes I pay dues for those months but I will not be covered so If I have a claim in June and leave in August tough luck…hostage holding…so you are forced to stay and have double insurance to ever be able to leave safely…I cannot even describe how many compalints there are with BBB and 284 with the Ohio Attorney General…they are terrible I could do on and on…